How to Drive More Traffic to Your Freelancer Website with SEO + AEO with Krissy Chin & Claire VanBemmelen #281

Krissy Chin 0:00 AI is looking for credibility and authority. So if those things are positioning you as someone who has authority and someone who is credible, then it’s going to be like, Okay, maybe we should be recommending Emily to like, be the go to for this. Emily Reagan 0:17 Hey there. I’m Emily Reagan, and you found the marketing freelancer. This is the podcast for marketing freelancers and service providers who are already making an impact behind the scenes and want to take their skills, income and business to the next level. Here, we’re all about embracing the unicorn title, a full stack marketer who can do it all, strategy, implementation, creativity and everything in between, we’re the magic makers who know how to deliver real results for clients and are ready to rise a sought after marketing specialist. We’re building a business we’re proud of working with Dream clients with impact and charging rates that reflect our work’s worth. Unicorns Unite. Hey, welcome back to the show today. We’re talking about your website as a service provider. I can’t hit this home enough, so I brought in two guests who are experts at building websites, designing websites, and really representing your brand on the web. It’s my friend Krissy Chin and her sister, Claire VanBemmelen. And these two ladies are powerhouses in business and have such an interesting background, but I invited them here to really talk about what goes in our website and how to start driving more traffic to our website. And sometimes we get lost in that cobblers kids thing. Like we don’t always put that effort into our own marketing and our own website, like we should, but as you’ll hear on the show today, it’s costing you leads. It’s costing you the higher quality clients that you’re going after. So we’re going to talk about the mistakes. We’re going to cover some SEO, and more importantly, we’re going to dive in how to start getting AI and the AI bots to read your website and recommend you as their number one best service provider. So before we jump in and make sure you get your application into our digital marketers work group. If you love these conversations, if you love the insight to doing the work, if you love hearing how everything comes together in the marketing ecosystem, you are a marketing nerd, and you deserve to be in the room. Get your application in. It’s a professional organization, it’s a community. It’s a mastermind that will help you grow your business by linking arms with others who are doing something similar. All right, let’s jump in. I’m super excited to have these two guests on the show today. Coming back for a second time. Is Krissy Chin, and then we have her sister, Claire VanBemmelen. So we are talking about Freelancer websites today, and what goes on them, and also how to drive traffic to them. And this is such a sticking point with me, because when I first started coaching and being in the Freelancer world, I used to say like, you could start without a website. And I take it all back, because now I think the website is so freaking important, and I am so glad it’s happened to your expertise today on the podcast. So say hello, say a little bit about you, where you are and also what you did in your past life, because I think it’s so interesting how we end up in the online space. Krissy Chin 3:11 Yeah, yes, hello. I’m so happy to be back here. Gosh, my past life, I was a nurse, and I think that really actually comes into life with supporting clients and websites now, because I can be like a great advocate on all the sides, and like managing the conversations between all of the people on the teams, like you need copy and you need design and strategy and what the client wants and all of this. So it’s like, I think my skills there, and really like taking care of patients and having my own job, and then having to work with the doctors and having to work with all of the people on the team really helps make me a really great advocate for like, getting what we need to get done. And so I love bringing that into just working with clients in the projects that we have, and supporting even our students that are DIYing all of this themselves. Oh, I love Emily Reagan 4:03 that we actually have a lot of nurses and teachers and also good with tech, good with multitasking, like all of these transferable skills. Claire, what about you? Claire VanBemmelen 4:11 Yeah, I graduated with a degree in interior design, knowing that I was a creative but thinking I wanted a job that actually paid the bills, rather than just like being an artist. I graduated during the housing crisis, where they were like laying off architects, let alone interior designers, let alone newbies just out of college with zero experience. So actually got in to the event space. I was working in the event world, but more so on the venue management side. So think like real estate, but for venue rentals, and I was the one non Boomer, millennial kid behind a desk that knew how to kind of do tech stuff. Everyone else was kind of on the sales team and much older than me. And so it was a startup, and so I kind of hit the ground running with where I. A lot of different hats, dabbling in CRM systems and email marketing, and using my skills in my degree to, like, put together floor plans and also create event flows and things like that. So I was working with clients, so it really like set the foundation for learning how to manage a lot of moving parts, understanding customer experience and flow and funnels, and then, you know, kind of continuing to self teach in a lot of these creative platforms like Adobe, which I did learn in school, but then kind of harness those skills a little bit more. And then Krissy came to me wanting to launch this website, and was like, you’ve built your own portfolio. You kind of like done some things help me. And so I helped her build a website. I helped my other our other sister, Katie, build a website for her business, and we kind of came together and started building a business and putting together this tool for a very specific audience. And then from that, we pivoted into this world, this new world, where we were helping people build their own websites and put together a program teach how to DIY it. And then now we also have an entire side of our business where we will take it off your plate and do it for you. So that’s sort of the evolution of my my creative path. It has bobbed and weaved and in between that I’ve, you know, become a certification junkie. I got my yoga certification, my personal training certification, and all the other things. So health and wellness is definitely an undertone. And I think with Kris’s nursing background and my just like love for biohacking and crunchy granola stuff, he’s kind of just attracted a lot of wellness community people as well. So it’s a fun little combo. Emily Reagan 6:59 And I like what you said. I know a lot of our audience can relate to the person who figures it out, who’s not afraid of tech, who taught herself how to do web pages, and that’s people who are listening. And then we end up with these businesses, and you have a very successful website design and branding business. And you guys, are you mainly on Kajabi? Are you doing other platforms too? Like, I know you’ve been evolving a lot. Yeah, we do Krissy Chin 7:22 other platforms as well. So WordPress, Squarespace, Kajabi, show it, are really the main ones. We definitely believe there’s not one perfect platform. And so it’s sort of like, based on your business, where is the best place for you to be. And there’s a lot of factors that we go into, and sometimes we’re helping people figure out, like, what’s the best platform for you? So we can work in multiple platforms. We don’t work in every single platform. There are ones that we definitely recommend over others, but we kind of know what our clientele are needing. And so it’s like, okay, based on that, one of these four is going to be great for you? Emily Reagan 8:03 Yeah. And I think we’re kind of over the days where websites were 30, $40,000 like, there’s like, a lot has changed. We’ve gotten all these tools to be more efficient and we’re more knowledgeable. But I feel like websites used to be very, like, hard and you used to have to do a lot of coding, and they are more accessible, but unfortunately, not everyone’s good at it. People don’t know what to write. I mean, even my own community, it’s like the caller’s kids, like, we know we should have a website. Do we take the time to do it? Do we feel comfortable writing about ourselves like it opens up so many issues? And I love that you have this, like, like, all in one service to, like, really help people get it done and out. And I’m hoping anyone listening to this episode is really going to feel motivated to take a look at their website and make some of the changes and then go into the AEO we’re talking about. But you also are giving away, and I’m just going to mention it right now, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, Oh, I might need some help, because this is a lot. This keeps so many people in my community kind of stuck and preventing them from selling themselves, and there’s all these blocks, but you also offer an audit. So tell everyone about that. I want to get that out there, in case people are like, Yes, I need help. Krissy Chin 9:10 Yeah. So we’ve got a special little audit for you. It’s going to be first come first serve, and there’s a limit on how many people can jump in on this. So if you’re listening when this first comes out, you’re going to be one step ahead, but it is a quick audit to really your homepage. If you just have a one page website, we’re gonna cover it, but it’s kind of like a first impression audit, and we cover these 10 different points to help bring clarity and understanding to what’s going well and what’s going wrong on your website, so that you can attract more people that are aligned with what you’re doing, so that you can have them take action. And we’re assessing whether or not you can actually be found online, because there’s one thing to have a website and to have the foundation built, and then there’s another to actually get people to come to it, right? Oh my gosh. And yeah, so we’re kind. Of looking at all of the pieces to give you feedback, a little bit on copy, on design, and then, hey, are you set up behind the scenes to make sure that people can find you? Speaker 1 10:09 Yeah? Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely one of those things where, when you’re building your business, you’re in your business, and you’re so close to it, that first impression for us to be able to look at it and see, I don’t have any idea what your business is, because you’re only really giving me your your URL, and I get to go on and see, can I know what that is right away? Right? It’s that first impression, definitely helpful. I think a lot of people have had some really great feedback on that. Emily Reagan 10:34 Yeah, I want to get insight into some of the mistakes that especially a freelancer or service provider would make. Yeah, but before we do that, I made fun of myself earlier in the beginning this episode for saying, like, we used to not need a website, like I didn’t have one forever and was always booked out. But this day and age has changed, and it’s like with the 2026 topic of people needing more trust than ever, buyers being more discerning than ever. It is crucial. And there’s also this thing happening in the freelance world, where people have been burned by contractors and service providers who couldn’t deliver what they said. And so I always see it as like just an opportunity now to stand out, but now it’s a must. So I would love to know your philosophy on this, because websites aren’t new, but we need them now. What’s your philosophy? Speaker 2 11:22 Our philosophy is using your website as your strategic partner. So, like you said, to have it help you build trust with the potential customer, to have it be your marketing assistant, to kind of help give them what they need to buy into and create value for what you’re offering, and then to be your sales associate right your full time closer. And so I think of a website as a business card. Now, in 2015 it’s like everyone had a business card. It’s like now you need a website. Even now, since, like you mentioned in the beginning of websites used to cost 30, 40, grand. Well, now that they are more accessible, everyone expects you to have one. And with everything going online, and people searching online through Google and in chat, GPT and all of that we’re looking for, like, what are the businesses that we should be that should be servicing us now, just because someone has a website doesn’t mean they’re going to be great. Like you said, people have been burned, and we have had clients come to us that are like, I hired someone else, like, I’m scared because I hired someone else, and it didn’t go well. I didn’t get what I want. I didn’t get what I needed. And our website has built a lot of trust already to get them to feel comfortable, to book a call and have a conversation with us. We took a call yesterday, and the guy was like, I mean, I was on your website for like 15 minutes, like looking through things and whatever, and then I booked this call with you. It builds a lot of trust to get them to take that next step. And that’s what we wanted him to do. We wanted him to book a call to talk with us, right? So you did the action. Some people will take 30 seconds, and some people it will take 15 minutes, but you need the content there to help build that trust, because, like you said, everyone’s been been burned by someone, somewhere, somehow. Emily Reagan 13:05 And one thing I’m seeing in this space is the market has evolved, right? And virtual assistant from 2015 is not the same as today, and there’s different expectations, but I’m just seeing a lot of like, very same, same vague service provider, websites where it’s not clear to Claire’s point, what they do, who they serve, what they offer, who, you know, ideal clients are, like all of that. And that’s probably like the biggest mistake. And thing I’m trying to stop inside our work group and our UDMA school is like having people be stand out, be memorable. And it’s all the key to, like, attracting like, the best clients, right? Everyone’s like, I feel like, everyone’s like, whining about, like the low ticket clients. And I’m like, Well, you can’t have a shitty website. Like, like, there’s our soundbite. Krissy. So like, okay, Claire, is there any other like, big mistakes you see with especially service provider websites? Speaker 1 14:01 Well, I definitely think that lack of clarity is a huge one. And I do think like we actually just got off a training that we provided for our community on AI, and how amazing it is. However, if you are asking AI to put together your website without any legwork or customization or profile of who you are, what makes you unique, it’s going to spit something out with confidence, and you’re going to copy and paste it onto your site, and it’s going to be the same thing as the next person and the same vague thing as the last person, right? Because it’s pulling from what it knows out there. So I think one of the biggest mistakes right now with the AI movement is not making it unique to you. So that’s one, making sure that you’re not just like trusting that the information that you’re putting on your site, that you’ve gathered, that you’ve used a tool. Tool to help you, which I think is a great place to start, is unique to you that goes to more specifics. So like your header, for instance, when we do these audits, the amount of times that people also try to be really clever and not clear, you know, their header will say something like, it’s time to rock and roll. Cool, but that’s not gonna help me learn as a consumer, what I’m supposed to rock and roll to. Are you a band? Krissy Chin 15:32 I think we should start a game where it’s like, guess what they do? Based on this headline, Emily Reagan 15:38 good deals on Instagram. Speaker 1 15:39 Yeah, that would be, we did these audits at an actual small business expo live, and some people were trying to tell me what their business was as I was typing in their website. And I was like, no, no, no, no. I want, I want to see your site and try to figure out what it is. Is it clear? So that’s a big one, clarity in your messaging, especially your hat, your h1 which also we’re going to get into SEO, but your headline, the very, very top, is prime real estate, and you need to be clear about what it is you do, who you service, and whether they’re in the right place or not within point 05, seconds, because that is how long it takes for someone to draw an opinion About your site, which then leads me to the second big, big mistake, is trying to give them all of the information before they start scrolling, word vomiting and heavy text with no room to breathe, all over the page, and then lots and lots of animations and images on top of text, less is more. We are in the age of like, give people a second to consume, to trust and then continue to move on. So those are probably my top two, because that is really the first impression that is going to start to build that foundation of trust right away. You know, you really only do get less than a second to draw their attention in. So the first level is, have a website so so people know where to find you, and it is your business and calling card. Step two is get them to trust you right when you right when they land on your page. Otherwise, there’s no conversion happening Emily Reagan 17:16 after that. Yeah, and how do you know there’s no conversion? And like, is there anything that Speaker 1 17:20 indicates that sales? Are they putting their name and email in for a freebie opt in, or a newsletter or something where you can capture it? They don’t trust you. They’re not going to give you their email. They don’t trust you. They’re not going to start clicking on more pages or scrolling through your page, which I think we’ll get into tools and whatnot. But like Google Analytics, will tell you how long someone’s staying on your page. So they’re there for five seconds, your bounce rate is going to be huge, and you’re going to be able to see that people don’t trust you well enough to stick around and read, yeah. Emily Reagan 17:47 That makes me think of like Facebook ads, when if the ad and the landing page don’t match, like, people bounce right away and you have a problem. You know, so funny. And then I was kind of thinking while you’re talking about the clever overt, like, sometimes in the work group, we joke about our jobs and what we actually are, and so it’s like, chaos coordinator, you know, client cat herder, and, like, none of that should be there. And we think we’re being funny and showing personality. And like, no shade to anyone who’s done that. I mean, it’s kind of how the whole joke of a unicorn came about, too. And I wouldn’t just put that as, like, my header, or, like, nobody gets it, or, yeah. I mean, Unknown Speaker 18:23 it can go somewhere else, but Krissy Chin 18:25 maybe not header, yeah, yeah. Emily Reagan 18:27 We recently did some website audits, and, like a challenge in our work group to try to get people to take the time to edit audit or create new and some of my people have multiple websites because they have like, different businesses too, but I think one of our big mistakes was people not being very clear on the call to action that they wanted. And I think it gets in their head, because we see what all of our clients are doing when it comes to their offers and their lead magnets and their like, bazillion pieces of content, but like, quite simply, we are trying to book a call, and people kind of forget a call to action. Like, do you see that how your clients too? Speaker 1 19:06 Yeah, in the audit one of one of the line items, spoiler alert is, do you have a clear call to action above the fold before anyone starts scrolling? That is a must have, and it’s very important, whether it’s up in your menu bar or on your your hero section, your top section, and then really quickly getting to your services, a lot of people will just, like, talk about things in an abstract way, and then like, Hey, I’m so and so get to know me, and you’re like, I’m not really sure what you do though, or I can’t find your service or packages. So that is also something that a lot of people kind of kind of forget if the call to action for your audience is book a call. Also sprinkle that throughout the page, so that they don’t have to scroll all the way back up or try to find it in the footer. So continuously saying in each section, strategically leading them to that one call to action and lots is more. Don’t have a million calls to act. Education. Keep it really simple. Yeah, I Krissy Chin 20:02 think to add to that is a lot of people that we work with, and even us, at times it’s like, you feel weird to sell, right? Like, you don’t want to be spammy, salesy, schemey, and so you’re like, oh, you know, I want to, like, give them education and more connection and all of this stuff. And you’re like, burying your services, and then it’s like, way down on the bottom of your page. But people come there because they want solutions. They want to know you can help them, yes, but they want to know what it is that you’re offering. And so making that very clear, like Claire said, hire on the page, having an individual service page for like in your menu bar. So it’s really easy to find if someone comes and has the personality that they really want more education. There’s different personality types. Some people want all of the social proof and all of the details and all of the education. They know to go hit blog right on your website. They know, okay, if I need more education to learn about this person. I’m gonna go check out their blog first. But if someone comes in like, I’m ready to go, they’re like, I just want to see what their services, what the packages are they’re going to click on that. How do you Emily Reagan 21:13 distinguish, like, the about page from the Services page? Like, how do you delineate that content? Krissy Chin 21:19 Yeah, well, the about page is a lot of people who will write their about page as like a personal ad, just like, here’s all the things about me and my whole entire life, and it’s like, no, we really want to focus in on you, but connecting with your ideal customer. So we want it to be an opportunity for that person to get to know you because there is so much competition that we want them to connect with you. We want them to resonate with you. Otherwise, you’re just like everybody else. So it is the best place to allow some of those things about you to come out and shine. So they kind of know what you’re all about. But we want to keep it still focused on who your ideal customer is, what their problem is, what the solution is, that you’re offering and you’re tying in information about you that’s giving them the insight that you’re the perfect person to help them. So let’s say you do marketing content for health professionals and you have somewhat of a health background, maybe you were a yoga teacher or whatever you want, to bring that into your about page and talk about that a little bit, but using it as validation and credibility that you’re the perfect person to hire to do their marketing content, because you are so in that world, right? So it’s like letting them get to know you as you’re assuring them that, like, hey, I can hold you in this space and I can take you to get the results that you need. Emily Reagan 22:46 So are you saying this is not a resume or linear list of everything you’ve ever done? Unknown Speaker 22:51 And no, however, I Krissy Chin 22:54 will say no, and yeah, and when we get more into AEO there, jumping ahead, but you want to have credibility with AEO. So it’s also like, if you have certifications, if you have those things that make you credible, this can be a great place to put it. It’s expected to be there, right? Or like, your little like, if you’re a dentist, right? You’re gonna have like, DDS or whatever. Like, it’s expected to be there, but no, this is not like, your full life story. Again, people have very small attention spans, like a gnat, like, six seconds, right? So little, bite sized pieces. We’re pulling out the good stuff. This is not your entire life story, or your business journey or how you got here. Like, save that for the podcast. Yeah. Speaker 1 23:36 And I will, I will add once you’ve actually hit all the things you need to do in your about page. For those that just want to keep consuming, there is a time and a place and a space for maybe adding some fun facts about yourself or doing a quick little timeline of your like, the spotlight of things of in your personal life, but that is not the main focus of your patient. Emily Reagan 23:59 I was like when people add in, like, Colby test results or, like, a little insight to the personality, that’s where I like to put that, too. Krissy Chin 24:06 Yeah, I love that. And then thinking about, like, we’re like, big on strategy with the website. So if someone does need to know more about you to build trust and buy in, they’re like, I just saw this random real now, I want to get to know them. I really want to know what they’re about their values, all of that. What’s the next thing we want them to do? We want them to check out your services, maybe, or maybe you want them to download the freebie, right? This is like, every business is a little different, so think strategically. Is like, what is the thing I really want to lead them to? And how am I going to lead them there? Because we want buttons on your about page to lead them to the next thing we want them to keep exploring with internal links inside your website. So if that’s check out the services, there will be buttons in your about page to like, hey, like you’ve gotten enough about me, like you’re you want to see more check out the services. So leading over there. But definitely. A specific page for services, and even individual pages per service, is best practice when you really want to get strategic, Emily Reagan 25:09 yeah, because then you rank for SEO Unknown Speaker 25:11 for all of that, right, correct? Emily Reagan 25:12 Yeah. Okay, so let’s talk about the next big question, which is, how do we get people to that website? Because I know my peer group, and I know our freelance marketers put pressure to, like, go on social and like push it, and we know that that’s such a hard ass to get people to click over off a platform. But there’s new ways and better ways to drive traffic. There’s a lot of Krissy Chin 25:35 different ways that you can drive traffic to your website, and that’s the good news, because not everyone is the same. You could be on a podcast. Everyone’s hearing they might want to go check us out. They’re going to click on our website in the show notes. You could be like an in person type of person, and so you could go to networking events, and you can hand out your card or have them scan the QR code to get to your website. You can invest in ads, Facebook ads, Instagram ads. You can do social media. Be on LinkedIn. You can be on Pinterest. Like, there’s a million ways which feels like, oh my gosh, that’s overwhelming. And also, the good news is there’s so many ways you can focus on, like, your genius of where you show up best, and lean into that. But when it comes to your website, if you’re the person that’s like, I just kind of want to sit on the back and I want to just like, let it work for me, then this is where the conversation of like, SEO, and now what we were going to talk more about is AEO, kind of the difference between that and that, once your website and your foundation is built, you want to build it correctly. So any marketing efforts you’re making time, energy and money that you’re putting into it, when they land there, they’re going to take the action you want them to do, and it’s going to lead to a conversion, right? But if you want someone to actually find you, there are things that you can do on your website to increase those odds and those chances. And I’m talking more about organic growth. So we mentioned SEO, which is a big one. Maybe you’ve heard of it, search engine optimization been around for so long, right? You type into Google and you’re searching for something, the goal for SEO, if you’re doing it correctly, is to help you rank to a top spot on Google or on YouTube or wherever, right you want to be listed first or second or third, so like someone clicks on you, AEO is the A stands for either AI or some people say answer engine optimization. This is different. It’s about being spoken about by AI, so being referenced or recommended by AI, and so most things that you do to help improve your SEO also help AEO. Most things that you do to help improve AEO also help SEO, but they’re optimized for completely different outcomes. So SEO helps you rank higher. AEO helps you get recommended by AI tools like chat GPT, perplexity. Quad Gemini, so think about this. I did this last night in that I was like, I’m going to do a little test. I went into Google and I typed in best pizza near me, and then I went into chat GPT and I typed in the exact same thing, what I got was completely different. When you type it into Google, it pops up the 10 restaurants that are near me, Domino’s, jets, pizza, Papa John’s, right? They’re everywhere. They’re like, within two minutes. SEO again, they’re getting on a list? AEO, completely different answer when I typed it into chat. GPT, the first one was antico pizza, famous for their neapolitan style pizza. They’re known for wood fire crust and best in Atlanta, right? And then the next one was double zero upscale pizza with, I think it’s like refined ingredients and quality crust, completely different results. And the chat GPT was more like your friend recommending a best place to go. And one was even like, recommended 20 minutes away from me. That’s not, you know, near me, like Google was taking it so much literal, like within two minutes, in three minutes and five minutes. And this one was like, Hey, here’s all of these cool places, and here’s what’s special about them. So the question is, are you trying to get on the list and outrank people, or are you trying to be recommended by AI tools, which now everyone seems to be using to help run their life, right? Or do you want to be recommended to them? So those are two. Speaker 1 29:47 I actually, I love that example, Krissy, and especially because it’s so real life and the difference is so stark, and really it actually solves the. Issue with the struggle to rank for SEO and for Google when you are new, starting out small, a team of one with SEO trying to compete with agencies and and huge names out there that have been doing this for decades, and they’ve evolved at the times in their their household names, like the dominoes and the, you know, the Pizza Huts of the world. It’s really challenging to get on that list, even if you are a pizza that’s like two blocks away from a pizza place is two blocks away from you. It still may be hard to get on that list because you’re not as well known, or you maybe haven’t done the right things, like getting on Google Maps to be recommended. You know, with this AE, oh, it gives you the opportunity to leverage what you’re putting on your website and the tools that Krissy will get into that you’re putting behind your website, so that you show up in that vocabulary and that niche that you want to show up and recommended because Emily Reagan 31:04 of it. Yeah, it’s kind of like the AEO is, like zooming in on the word best, and actually, like listening instead of just giving, like, the generic answers. I actually got my cmo client that way, and I’m hearing more and more service providers who have aI recommending them as a service provider. Because right now, if you tried to rank for a virtual assistant, you would be, which is a term I hate, by the way, but you would be competing against all of the overseas agencies like you would be so far down the pages that like it would be pointless. So I love that the little guy, the micro agency, the solo Vernier, has a Krissy Chin 31:40 shot here? Yeah. I mean, that’s the great news. Is you don’t need to have a million followers or national press. You just need to repeat, consistently, have credibility in your niche. And that’s because AI isn’t just indexing websites anymore, it’s recognizing entities so people and businesses, and it’s looking for consistent information about them across the web. So once it really understands you, what you do, who you serve, there are, you know, signals that you’re putting out there that, hey, I’m the person everyone’s talking about, then it’s going to recommend you just like a friend would. Emily Reagan 32:19 Yeah, I was just thinking, so how what gets us that best category? The Best of Show, my mind goes to testimonials, and some of that social proof is AI looking at that. Krissy Chin 32:30 So what it’s really running on is clarity, authority and pattern recognition. So I want to, like, take just a little overview of SEO so that we can compare, right? Because we all kind of know SEO, it’s keywords, it’s keyword placement, right? So the Google bots are asking, What are relevant search terms that are going to put you in front of them? Right? We’re talking meta, titles, descriptions, domain authority. So do you have backlinks? Are there broken links on your page? What’s your load speed? Are you mobile friendly? Like? That’s what SEO is looking at. It’s largely algorithmic matching, competing for the ranking. So se or AEO, excuse me, it’s all these letters here for the ranking about being referred. I said clarity, authority and pattern recognition. So the bots that are running these AI tools are running through your site, asking questions like, do I understand exactly what this person does? Do they clearly answer questions. So that’s like the clarity piece. And then it’s looking for signs of authority, asking questions like, Are they credible? Are they cited or referenced elsewhere? And AI loves pattern recognition. So are they consistently described across the web? So do they have consistent BIOS everywhere? So if I could give you three things to focus on to help you improve your chances of getting recommended by AI, it would be adding FAQs to not just one page or not just your sales page, but every single page of your website, almost every adding schema code to your website pages and having business profiles everywhere. So those are like, and we can dive into Speaker 1 34:12 those, yeah, and that are consistent, yeah, yeah. Emily Reagan 34:16 It, it kind of like gets me excited, because it is like, the totality of our marketing work across channels, and the reason why we do show up in these places, even if we’re not fully in Instagram, or as an example, because it’s getting pulled into Google and Pinterest is getting pulled and so if we can control some of those, and those are like legit social platforms, so if our BIOS and everything can be consistent. That’s only more fuel. I mean, Speaker 1 34:43 it kind of just goes back to the fundamentals of brand recognition, brand identity. Anyway, you know, like you said, Google is now recommending these social like, I’ve Googled certain like, tutorials or something that I was looking for, and it pulled up a girl talking in not just YouTube, because. That’s, you know, owned by Google, but in Instagram and Facebook. So it’s actually, it’s really pulling in these very specific things. Now, if I go to her in her Instagram, and her handle is one thing, and her profiles like cat lover, and it’s maybe personal, but she also is an entrepreneur, and she does have a URL there and it goes to her site, it feels really disjointed and it doesn’t have the same profile. One, it’s gonna be a ding on your SEO and AEO. But two, it’s also not building trust. So it’s this, like this holistic thing that you that once you kind of hit these things and and run through it all and make sure your bio and your your face in the same headshot is consistent. That’s a big one, and all these things, then it will just kind of like help all the avenues. Emily Reagan 35:49 It sounds like that clarity piece from your website just carries over everyone. Very intentional Krissy Chin 35:55 with that. Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s not human, but it’s more humanized than the SEO type, right? So the more just like you said, Claire with like, think about your customers. They need to have clarity in what you do. And if you’re saying you do one thing over here and you’re saying you do a different thing over here, they’re going to be confused. And so the more clear you can be for your customers, the more clear you can be for the AI tools that are, you know, crawling, I don’t know what the word is, like the internet, and really looking for you and being like, Hey, who is this person? What do they do? Can we trust them? Should we be recommending them to now, the humans that are asking us for advice and what to do and what service providers to go for. Speaker 1 36:43 So you kind of grazed over schema without giving it sort of less than Yeah, yeah. Krissy Chin 36:49 I can go, yeah. I can definitely go back to schema. So it’s basically labels behind the scenes that tell search engines and AI what each page is about. So you have your homepage that would have organization schema on it, on the back end, on the code, the person on the front end, the customer, the potential customer. They’re not seeing any of that, but it’s on the back end, in the code that’s telling these little bot crawlers. This is exactly what this is the business. This is the name, this is what we do. This is who we serve. So it’s very clear, because sometimes you want a little bit, maybe different copy on your homepage, for your about page, it’s going to have the person schema on that page. On your service page or product page, is going to have specific schema that’s about that. And you can include FAQs in that schema. So on that that code that you’re putting in, you can include reviews on that code breadcrumbs, even so your like, your homepage, your about page, your services page, your blogs, those should all have schema on them. Again, this is just to help assist the bots, like we want to make it easy for them to be able to read our site. Think of it like a resume. So if you don’t have schema on your website, it’s like someone handing you a resume and just a big paragraph form. If you have schema on your website, it’s like handing someone a resume with really clear, defined bullet points, very organized. It’s going to be so much easier to read. So it’s sort of like the difference, like it’s there and they can maybe read it, but it’s not as helpful as if you have this really drawn out for them. Emily Reagan 38:35 Yeah, it’s formatted for the bot. So what does that look like? Is it a plugin that you use? Or is this, like, you have to know coding, or it’s Krissy Chin 38:42 simple in a sense. And I’ve got a YouTube video that we could put in the chat, that we can kind of share how to do it. But there are tools out there to say, like, hey, I need schema for my homepage. And so you answer these questions about your business, what’s your business name? What’s your you know, tell us you’re about, like what you do, and it will create the code for you. And then you just copy that code and you put it into the back end of your website, either in your header. If you have the ability in Kajabi that we use, you can’t do code in the header. So it’s like, you can just create a custom code box and put it, put it in there, and then there’s a link that you can use to test it to see, is it uploaded properly? And to be honest, you can use AI and chat, GPT and Claude and whatever to do a screenshot, because this was how I was first learning how to do it. I’m like, it says there’s an error, right? So I like, do a screenshot. I’m like, What am I missing? And it’s like, oh, you’re missing this. Or, like, it’s, you know, an AI is not perfect. So it might tell you to do one thing, and then actually, like, that’s not the correct thing. And so you’re like, This is the problem. And they’ll be like, okay, use this code instead. And so it’s kind of like, it’s been a testing process for me, but I’ve kind of figured out, like, Okay, this is the code. And so in that that video, there will be a link like, Hey, if you want the real code, you should be using. Use this as your basis point, right? But it can also assist you in, just like putting the proper code on and then using Google console has been one once it’s on there, if there are any errors that don’t show up in that, like check where you put your link in and check it might flag some things, like, when I was first doing it, I was using a product schema on our course, and so that looked fine, like it had no errors in the check. And then when the Google console flagged it, and it was like, Ooh, but you’re not using the like, the right one, because product is for like, e commerce. You need, like, the offer schema. So there’s, like, kind of these double checks. I break that down in the video for you, but you can do it yourself. I mean, we’ve had people hire us to do it because they’re just like, I do not want to be in that space at all looking at slashes and, yeah, like, Emily Reagan 40:55 I see JSON, I see structured data, and I’m like, I just don’t want to mess it up. Krissy Chin 40:59 Yeah, but you can, I mean, you can, I mean, you can do it if you have a little bit of patience and whatnot. You can, you can Emily Reagan 41:05 do it yourself. Yeah, talk to me about that FAQ section, because obviously that goes on an offer page, a sales page. But how could we do that? And do we get dinged if it looks like we’re like, keyword stuffing? You know, are we AEO stuffing? But how could we do that FAQ as a service provider? Do you have, like, any ideas? Krissy Chin 41:24 Yeah, definitely. So the FAQs, normally you’d see them on a sales page, but you could have just a standing page that’s maybe in your menu bar, and think about the questions that people actually ask you and want the answers to people are looking for the best information and to help give them clarity. So if they’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t have to read a whole website to try and, like, manhunt this and like, become a detective to figure out, like, the answers to the questions that I have, and it’s placed in this FAQ, it actually becomes a great tool for your user experience as well. You can put it at the bottom of your page. So it might seem weird, like, okay, a homepage that seems weird to have FAQs, but if you put it at the very bottom, if you do an accordion style where it’s not all the texts that you can see all the time, they have to click on the box, and then it opens up to see the text, you can put kind of specific questions to what that page would be if someone’s on your homepage, what are they wondering? They’re wondering, maybe what type of clients you serve. So maybe there’s an FAQ specifically about that. What you know, what’s, am Unknown Speaker 42:35 I the right client? Am I right Krissy Chin 42:37 to help them kind of understand more? So it’s, you know, you’re putting it in the copy, and then it’s just another place where it’s like, if that wasn’t clear enough, I’m gonna really state it for you if you need to know. And then that helps also the AI bots in terms of being able to read that information. And again, think about how chat GPT responds to you. It’s not pulling up like the metadata and the title, it’s literally responding like a friend. So it’s actually a really great place for you to put copy in a response, as if you are responding to a friend, or if someone just asked you point blank, versus maybe something you would structure a little bit different on the copy of your pages. Emily Reagan 43:19 Okay, so maybe you’re like services page. Like, you know, I’m building websites, so how long does a website take, or do you write the copy? Like, what platforms do you build on? Like, all of those specific to the service would make sense over there. It makes sense that the homepage would be different. Speaker 1 43:35 Yeah, all of them actually should be mildly different. There may be some overlap, but it’s about thinking about what it is that’s on that page, and then answering those questions. So again, kind of back to the schema. Your homepage is by your organization. Those questions are going to be geared towards the organization as a whole. On a checkout page, you’re really at the purchasing stage of the offer, you’re going to be asking, what are the refund policies, things like that that are very specific to that that are very specific to that action on that page. A sales page is going to be more about the course or the program or the training or the how you work together, depending on what it is that you’re selling. An about page might be kind of weird, but you could get kind of clever and do, like, want to know a little bit more about me and set it up as an FAQ to have them, like, almost like, interact and click to learn about you. And I think you could be strategic with like, think about the things that someone might want to know about you as a service provider, and then weave it into the answers and the questions and the answers. And I’m trying to think of a good example right now. I think about like, any kind Emily Reagan 44:39 of like objection, and how you would like reframe it on a sales page. So anything that would be, like, our credibility marker, yeah, Speaker 1 44:47 like, am I the right person for for the job? Krissy Chin 44:50 A question like, when’s the right time to work with you? Like, if you’re specifically work with people at certain stages of your business, you want to very quickly. Also, Discord. Qualify people as you want to qualify them. So that would be a great opportunity in an FAQ. Is like, when’s the right time to work with you, and then you can share like, after you’ve done XYZ, after you have a brand guide, or, you know, whatever, or like in the very beginning steps of, you know, when you’re trying to discover yourself, or whatever, right? Another good one that could be for your homepage is, how are you different than a typical VA, right? Like, what are they associating you with? And how do you want to set yourself apart, give yourself that opportunity that might be weird to say, like in your copy, like, a VA does this and I do this, right? It kind of gives you the opportunity to be like, what is the blatant question they’re thinking and how do I want to answer that, to stand out from someone else? And it just gives you that opportunity. Again, it’s not like all over your page, it’s the bottom accordion style. And then with the schema, you can take those FAQs and put it in the code so you’re like, bot, do not miss this information, right? It’s like, you’re you’re fat, you’re double checker, Unknown Speaker 46:05 right for it. Why I love Emily Reagan 46:06 this so much is they think that we all want better quality clients and more qualified clients, and to stop wasting our time. So it’s like these things can pull the difference and who’s landing on your website, right? Like, tell AI who you want, and yeah, that’s how we get out of the $20 an hour clients sometimes find us. And yeah, I went down a whole rabbit hole. I don’t know if I told you this Krissy about how to AEO, like my media page, my Press page, and I got a lot of insight there and things that I could do. I think there are, like, credibility signals that you can bring in that like you’ve started speaking, or like you’ve been featured in media, and that was a fun afternoon. Like, I keep needing to go back to it, but I’m like, Wow, it’s so fun to see, like, everything I’ve been doing for years kind of come together, and I feel like a eo is like, giving me respect for that. Like, it’s like, acknowledging that, and it’s fun that it’s paying off and these little things, but you got to know where to put it right, tell the bots to read it. Yeah? Krissy Chin 47:08 And I think that’s part of the long game strategy of, yeah, you know, there’s a long game in SEO. There’s also a long game in AEO. It’s not a hack. It’s building a clear digital reputation over time. So if it’s okay, if you’re just starting out, because you can start implementing these things to make it easier for AI to know who you are, what you do, make it very clear. If it’s questioning, it’s not going to recommend you. So that’s where getting really clear on everything you do is really important. But all of those things you’ve done over time, if you’ve been around and you’ve been a speaker, and you’ve been on podcasts, and you’ve done these different things, and you’re starting to get profiles on places that’s going to help you, because, again, AI is looking for credibility and authority. So if those things are positioning you as someone who has authority and someone who is credible, then it’s going to be like, Okay, maybe we should be recommending Emily to, like, be the go to for this. Yeah. Emily Reagan 48:04 I mean, that’s the dream, like getting the high intent, serious buyers who we don’t have to over educate, we don’t have to over convince that are quickly sold. This is so fun I could keep nerding out on all the AEO stuff. Like, I’m so into it. I’m so into using, like, the case studies and the social proof that we’ve built up as freelancers. And I know like, you’re in the same boat, you go, you all also offer a service to people. So it’s fun. Is there anything that, like, we didn’t cover, that we need to mention here, that you want Krissy Chin 48:34 somebody to know? Yeah, I think blogging, because it is quite different for if you’re blogging for AEO than if you’re blogging for SEO. And again, like a lot of people are, like, it’s, you know, the long game. So if you’re building that credibility on your website, and you’re blogging to not only educate your customers, but also to educate the bots and Google and all of that, of what you do and whatnot, it’s different. So with SEO and blogging, again, very keyword, very, you know, long tail keyword phrases, you’re like, using the platforms, like we use Uber Suggest, or you could use sem rush, like, what are the keywords people are searching for? And I want to make sure that those are in my blog. You’re not stuffing them weird, but it’s like, organically throughout or in the right places in the headers and all of that. So that blog strategy for SEO is like writing 20 blogs on different topics in a space that you’re in using keywords and phrases to try and rank for all of the things that your ideal customer is searching for. But with AEO, it’s more about picking two to three topics and then writing 10 to 20 blogs on those because remember pattern and repetition and making it really clear, like I don’t talk about everything, and I’m not going to give you all the insights on everything. I’m focused on these main things, and I’m going to write on them. So an example, we just had a client who got an AI. A like blog package for us, we weren’t writing her blogs, but we were coming up with the topics for her, not to help her rank, but to help her build authority. So she’s a dentist who has a program that also provides CE credits to dentists, so half of the blogs that we gave her on topics were about CE credits, and the strategy is not to outrank those really large education sites that are providing the CE credits for dentists, but rather to out position them by answering a different question, or by providing clarity on things that they aren’t providing or offering interpretation and guidance, not just like a list of here are the websites that you can get ces from. So when you think about writing blog topics, ask yourself, what is the primary question that this blog is going to answer? Again, if this is the AEO strategy, it’s not what keywords are they using to search, it’s what is the question that they’re putting into chat, GPT and like, what is this blog going to answer? What’s that primary question? And then leveraging the information and the insights that you have, the knowledge that you have, so less case study focused when you’re trying to build authority and more more about, like, what you experience. I mean, you can definitely do case studies and all of that, and like putting the numbers in there, but like, when you’re referencing, this is what, you know, when we’ve worked with clients, we’ve experienced this, or, you know, those kinds of things, tells AI, like, Oh, they’re working with people, oh, they have actual knowledge Because of experience, versus just, like, here’s the information. Does that make sense? Yeah, no. Kind of the difference? Yeah, I Emily Reagan 51:46 love it so much. And I also, I think I’ve heard and correct me if I’m wrong, I’m gonna say this quite simply, but, like, thought leadership, like point of view, like, all of that is super valuable to AEO when you are thinking outside the box and, like, not just doing the standard answer, is that true? Yeah, yeah. Krissy Chin 52:03 I think definitely, like, bringing your again, like it wants clarity on what you’re doing and niche, like niching, I know, like, some people are like, Oh, I don’t want to niche. I don’t want to, like, you know, block people from what I can do with them. But that is something if you are niche and specific. The AI loves that, because the more focused it knows you are, it knows exactly who to put you in front of. And so I think in that thought leadership space, if you know like who you serve, and can be really specific with that, it’s just going to have an easier time recommending you. Emily Reagan 52:38 No, I love this so much. This has been so helpful, and I feel like energized that, again, the little guy could do this could actually make a difference in our business, and we can get ahead of the curve because we have the marketing knowledge. I also just want to repeat the need to to specialize. Like a lot of people who are listening to this show are at that like, you know, jumping off point where they have to decide, and like this is a great time to double down and get AEO recommending you as a service provider, so going all in with your services. So thank you, ladies, like always, love meeting up with you. We’re gonna post a link to your audit. I encourage anyone to grab that. While it’s free, eventually you will have to pay so go be one of the ones to sign up. Best place to connect with you. I’m gonna guess your website, but anywhere Krissy Chin 53:23 else, yeah, our website, and then get on our email list. We give a lot of information in there that we don’t give elsewhere. I like to say, like, we’re not awful at social media, but like websites and emails definitely our strong suit. So go there, but we are on Instagram, K and C dot creative. We do have a YouTube channel, so we can link those up for you, but there are a couple other places you can find us, Emily Reagan 53:44 but go to the website. Okay, one more question. One more question. It might be slightly controversial. Are using templates bad? Oh, I’m just gonna like open the end of the podcast with that, like a brand new topic. Speaker 1 54:00 Yeah, yeah. Sorry. I mean, for my personal experience, I don’t think templates are helpful, because I know how to make it better, and so I start with a template and then just revamp it anyway. Yeah, I do think it’s helpful for people who feel overwhelmed. I mean, at the end of the day, overwhelm can be a very big sticking point. And if something can help you with overwhelm, whether it’s using AI to help with your copy or templates to help build your site, if you’re doing any of it on your own, and you understand the platform enough to know what is going on with the template, that’s another huge one. So making sure, if we’re speaking about web page templates, if you were to grab a template and start using it, but you don’t know anything about how the platform works, you’re going to kind of feel like you’re still in the dark, and it might even more be more challenging to deconstruct what you’re looking at in order to make it your own. But it’s really dependent on the site, I would say, show it is a little bit interesting in that realm, because there’s so much creative flexibility. And, you know, you have to get the template with also the training along with it, right? Yeah, that’s Krissy Chin 55:13 why, when we give templates, there is a training that comes along, right? Templates have certainly saved me. Before. Claire was like, fully on it was like I was surviving on templates, and that’s the only way I could have done it, because I don’t have the zone of genius that she does with design and with that. And even starting as a copywriter, I would use templates to get started. So I think there’s certainly a time and a place for it. And if you’re at the level where you really want to customize, you know, be more in depth with your business strategy, and customize your site, really, to be tailored to what you do and how you want to have people flow through and what you’re offering. Then there will be limitations to a template, because it’s only going to say you’re going to have to make more modifications to it. So I think to get started, it’s a great way to, you know, get unstuck and help support you in something that you’re not so savvy in. And then as you get more experience in your business, you get more clarity. You have more to invest then getting someone to support you that can actually do something custom can go a long way. Emily Reagan 56:17 Yeah, yeah, that’s what I wanted to end on. So thank you for hitting that home, that it’s okay to get to that next level in your business and hire help and bring in the specialists, like I know copywriters who turn around and hire other copywriters, and me, I’ve had to like work with other website designers, so that’s okay to outgrow it. Krissy Chin 56:36 Yeah, I think people can tell what level you’re at based on what your website looks like, or they are making assumptions, I should say. And most people do start their website DIY style. We don’t have a lot to invest or, you know, we’ve got to put this together ourselves. And if you’re not a professional specialist, unless you’re like, design is your jam or copy is your jam, you’re going to be able to tell. And so over time you evolve, your business evolves. And so your website needs to come up to the new level that you are at. And when people land on your site and they see something that looks DIY, they are going to think you’re a beginner. So either you can be a beginner and have a really amazing website and make them feel like you’re really experienced, or you can be really experienced, and make sure that your your website, represents who you are, where you’re going, and the people that you want to serve. I feel like I’m like, preaching here. Emily Reagan 57:34 If you take I wanted, yeah. Krissy Chin 57:37 So yeah, it really makes a difference. So think about like, what are the goals for your business? Where do you want to go? What are the level of clients that you want to be attracting? If you’re not representing and on the frequency that they’re on, they’re moving on to someone else. And so it’s not just what’s the code on your website. It is. And this is, like, we didn’t even really get into much of like, our strategy, but Claire’s huge on user experience and user interface. Like, what’s the experience they’re having? Does it feel elevated? Like, where they want to go and what they want to do? Because you’re going to be supporting them and getting to their goals. So they need to trust that you’re going to get them there. And again, just like your website is at the starting point of, you know, maybe the second interaction, if you’re like finding them on social or whatever, but it’s a very close like, when they’re getting to know you, a place that they go to very quickly to learn more about you and decide, do they want to engage with you, get on your email list, book a call and lead to hire. So we’re biased, but we believe it’s very important. Speaker 1 58:38 Yeah, we had a client that came to us with a site but wanted to overhaul because he was the authority in a specific type of massage, and he was teaching other therapists how to do this new thing, right. And because he is an authority in this niche, he also wanted to show up as an authority, and his website was DIY, and he needed to level up after he launched his website, one of his clients, who most of his clients, are also massage therapists, right? They’re in the same field. They’re technically competitors to a degree. She came and got a massage, and because she had seen his website and saw how high level it was, she handed him the deposit for the four day immersion course to learn how to do this specific technique right then and there in person. Because she’s like, You, you sold me your website was so beautiful and so elevated. I need to be where you’re at. And she handed him cash. It was, it was one of, one of my favorite testimonials that we’ve gotten Krissy Chin 59:35 that that getting that text, Claire sent it over, and she’s like, we were close with our clients, so like he was texting her, like, oh my gosh, she just came in, complimented the website, handed me cash for the intensive. And I was like, Yes, this is what we wanted. Emily Reagan 59:48 And I love getting that spice you take from you, because people need to hear it. But I’m also judging if, if you have no favicon, if your your links to your social aren’t working, if you have a contact form. Know, book a colleague like, I have like, a list of like, judgmental factors, and it’s so true, if you want to attract a higher level business owner like, you’ve got to present that. So all right, thanks, ladies. Bye, thanks. Emily Bye, thank you. Okay, you heard Krissy and Claire, we are judging you based on your website. You are not booking clients because your website is not good enough, and there’s also an easier way for clients to find you when you do the SEO game and now start playing the AEO game. So I encourage you to link arms with other service providers who are doing this together. Get your application in for a digital marketers work group. It is a meeting of the minds as a community and mastermind of other freelance marketers across multiple specialties, who are also doing the work to grow their business. And here’s what happens. When you do good work, you attract clients, you attract better referrals. All of that starts to fall into place, but it starts with doing good work. It starts with attracting clients, and that’s on you. You got to do the legwork here. So get your application in for the work group, we’d love to have you go grab Krissy and Claire’s a free website audit you might have to pay if it’s all been scooped up, but it’s there for you take advantage and start attracting better clients. And then we’ll also link to their YouTube video talking about schema and all the all the details on how to implement that on your website. And before you go hit subscribe, so you don’t miss another episode of The Marketing Freelancer. I’ll see you in the next episode. Thanks for tuning in to the marketing freelancer. If you’re ready to connect with other marketing freelancers, learn advanced strategies and take your business to the next level, check out our digital marketers work group. It’s my exclusive membership where you’ll find the support community and tools to land premium clients and grow your income. Visit marketers workgroup.com to learn more, or just use the link in the show notes. Apply today. Step into your power, own your expertise and command the rates your work deserves. See you next time on the marketing freelancer unicorns unite. Claire van, I’m backed it up. Look at you. Did you hear my dog? Hold on. Get the fuck out of here. Let me blank out all my question. Hang on, recomputing. Recomputing. Oh yeah, I’m really bombing the segue. Okay, my kids just got home, so it’s like awkward here.